Transcript

Hello and welcome to the tantra for gay men podcast hosted by Jason and Ingo Tantra. Here we’re exploring spirituality and personal growth through the practice of Tantra, the body, energy and sex.

Hello there. I’m Jason Tantra and welcome to episode 13 of the tantra for gay men  podcast where Ingo and I are talking about, you know, feeling ugly, feeling unattractive, feeling undesirable, and just feeling help. I’m really stuck with that. And this is a great podcast because we unfold kind of like our exploration unfolds, we talk about visual stimulation, visual stimulation, actually being the road to no joy, and actually to throw yourself into totality, embodiment and experiencing sensations. And we also talk about energetic attractiveness towards the end of the podcast. So some great ideas if you are experiencing now, listen all the way through because it gets Meteor and more interesting as we go through. We also talk about the ashram and the festival at the end. Enjoy. Hello there beautiful Ingo. Hello there, Jason. Welcome to the next podcast we are in Episode 30. That’s lucky, someone say unlucky but lucky could be lucky. And if you looked at Episode 12, if you watch the background, we are in the same location.

And we are in the goddess temple. And what I ‘m finding amusing in this room, is that there are vaginas.

You can see that just behind me here yeah, all that kind of there is feminine kind of there is definitely the the the the honoring of the Divine Feminine going on here, which is a beautiful thing. I don’t know about you, I feel kind of nestled in here, in the goddess in the arms of the goddess temple. Certainly sorry, vaginas holding us as we’re talking about a man who loves men community. So what’s our topic today? I know you’re trying to move us on, I want to talk about who it is.

That I’m gonna wait for you. We’ve got 45 minutes to fill. Okay, let’s bring it back. We’re here still in the sacred landscape of Glastonbury. Today is a common question that comes up for people, for men who love men, because that’s who we’re specifically talking to. Around I feel ugly, and attractive and undesirable. Help. I’m stuck. So I feel ugly, unattractive, undesirable help. I’m stuck.

I’ve got a lot to say on this topic. Maybe start having me too, basically. But okay, start. Okay. Well, so I think one of the first questions that comes up for me with that, is that the idea of what is ugly. And then in contrast, what is beautiful is completely subjective.

It’s a completely subjective idea. So when we look in the mirror, and we feel that there are parts of us that are undesirable, or unwanted or not yet not desired. That, for me is subjective, because it’s a opinion. And for me, anything that is based in opinion, doesn’t take into account the whole spectrum of opinion. There’s just an opinion. We’ll just talk a little bit more about Yeah. So in my years of teaching Tantra

I have well, actually not let me let me give you another example. In my years of doing tantric massage, so I saw tantric massage clients for 16 years. And I would say I experienced and saw 1000s, literally 1000s of men over that time. And it would be fair to say that I saw the full spectrum of men of shapes, sizes, ages colors, every different permutation of men came to see me married, boyfriends, hetero bisexual, the whole spectrum of what is classed as man was on my mat. 

And some of the things I noticed was that occasionally you know, I would or not occasionally but at times I would get this, you know, hyper muscley guy.  Yeah, that would be textbook beautiful. And, you know, he would look like something on the front cover of Men’s Health magazine. And you know, everyone want to lick between every curve on the six pack, you know, and be and was absolutely gorgeous from a visual perspective, you know, something that would fit on a front cover. And what I generally found was that those men were actually the most inhibited. Like one of the common things, I think, misconceptions is that men that pay and I’m not saying in all cases, but I’m saying what I found what I experienced over a long period of time. And what I generally found was that men that are hyper visual or hyper activity on how they look. So what I mean by that is that they are putting in extraordinary efforts to achieve a cut front copy of Men’s Health magazine, look, they were generally the most inhibited in their body. So I would offer to our Tantra sessions. And, you know, as we’ve talked about before, that session would include, you know, building intimacy building i gazing, it would be an undressing ritual, it would be breath sound, waking up the body meeting sensation, taking them into their ecstatic energy, building into multi orgasmic energy, maybe some angel healing massage, as part of that, you know, to a climactic orgasmic experience. And what I would find is that the textbook beautiful people were the most inhibited in their body and got the least amount from that session.

And, sorry, I’m talking a lot, but I feel like there’s certain things to unpack go on. Absolutely. And then the clients that I used to find that were the that got the most out of the session, with those that were the most freest in their body. And what I mean by freest is those that weren’t caught up with how they look, they just accepted how they looked. And that there was a level of responsiveness in their body, they were able to meet what I was offering. And what I used to find was that my own arousal in those sessions was never dependent upon how somebody looked. But actually everything to do with how that person was energetically how they were in their body, and how they were able to meet me in the experience that I was offering them. So I think, you know, in the first, maybe I’ve answered the podcast in the first five minutes, but I feel that that part of you that feels an ugly or undesirable or not worthy, actually, that doesn’t, whether you’re feeling that or not, is irrespective in the practice of Tantra is actually irrespective, all you need in Tantra, is to and I think this is one of the common things that people men need to address in the early part of the tantric journey. For example, when they find themselves in a workshop, and there’s an array of men, you know, like I’m doing as it one day in London in two weeks, there’s 2630 men there.

And there were going to be all different variations of man. And it’s like, what is going to enable me to have the best experience. And if you’re limiting that to just visual looks? Well, one, you can’t because we draw lotteries, you don’t know who you’re gonna be partnered with. It’s at random. And I think there’s something about this something about the spiritual journey of tantra about letting go of the mind, the minds need for visual stimulation, that actually the ecstasy, the orgasm, the expanded energy, all of that stuff that you’re going to feel, is not going to come from your visual stimulate visual stimulation around how people look. And for me, that is a metaphor for the issue in society for gay men, men who love men are conditioned on porn. 

We are conditioned to get our stimulation, our ecstasy, our pleasure through what’s a visual, whereas Tantra for me is utterly political. And that what it says is no, actually everything you’re going to experience is through your body, and every body has sensations. It don’t matter what you look like at all. I’ve talked a lot there, which what do you think? I completely agree with you, but at the same time for me

to believe this actually, I had to experience it. So did you experience for me,though was, I want to talk to you about one situation that actually happened. I think it happened in one of those trainings that we were in when we were still training in tantra way before we taught.

And I, if I’m really being honest, you know, when when, when I started, when, when I started Tantra, I had this, this idea, in my mind, that they need to be of a similar age than me, they need, you know, in order to connect with someone they need to be of a certain age, they need to be a certain kind of body shape data, data, data data.

And the first time where I’ve felt that, actually, the the, the, the answer to this question might be different to what you thought was, there was this guy, I don’t think you word that I think there was this guy who I think he was something like 77 year old years old, or something like that. And you could see that, you know, his body was, you know, that of a elderly person he had had, I don’t know, I think he had had several strokes before. And you could see almost,

you know, you could see that there was this disability, he had difficulties getting on the massage table, things like that.

He did not take any of the kind of attractive boxes, yet.

There was something irresistible in him. And I didn’t get it at first, it took me a while, you know, now nowadays, it’s different. I see that at first sight. But it took me a while to realize what it really was. And what it was that this guy said, I don’t give a shit what my body is whether my body is too old or too young, able to do this not able to do this. I want to experience this and I’m going to completely throw myself into this, he almost had a promise that the the the energy of an 18 year old that is completely, like in love with life and hungry for live. And yes, I want to do this and there was this glint in his eyes. And he said, you know, he’s, there was a situation where he said to the group, he said, okay, there are a few things that I you know, need help with like to get on the massage table or something. But actually, I’m here to experience this, and I completely give myself to this. And there was something there was something really, really irresistible, completely irresistible to talent. Can you tell us more about that? Yeah, it wasn’t in a conventional way. 

But for me, I realize that I get turned on by someone, when I feel that someone is coming into that space, that space of let’s say, sharing Tantra, or having sex with me or something like that, when someone comes into that space, and you feel that completely letting go into whatever might happen between you. And there is this vulnerability in there. And this this, this, this idea of you, you can try out whatever you will you want to try out, there’s no holding back. And that that I find I find hugely, I find hugely arousing sexually. And I’ve met many, many, many other people find that arousing, especially in the tantra scene. So with this, this would mean that actually,

it is not about how you who you are, it’s about how you hold yourself. Does that mean for me what you’re what you’re talking about an experience is the thing I’m pointing to. If, you know, as you would say, Dear listeners, if you’re listening to this podcast, and you’ve never experienced Tantra, it might well be that in your sex life if you’re having sex with different persons. And you know, when you look at Grindr, you know, for me, the way that Grindr and other apps they present how people look, and people are making decisions of who they’re connecting with based upon how they look. And that for me

is the route to misery and the route to unsatisfying experiences, because even in the sex in that time

is only based upon what you’re visually receiving to stimulate your arousal. So again, I don’t know if you’ve ever, you know, again, do listeners had that type of sex, where you’re having sex with somebody based upon how they look. And actually, you’re just stuck in that. And I think that’s like 90% plus of sexual experiences, where people are only stuck in the visual and getting off on the visual, because that’s what we learned from porn. That’s the only sex education I’ve had as a gay man. You know, my favorite talked about my sex education at school. You talked about it in this podcast. Thank you for reminding me. I’m not gonna mention that again, you’ll have to listen back to a previous episode. But like, my sex education wasn’t great. And, you know, I was taught by nuns at a Catholic school, the idea of sex was all about procreation.

And so the only place then at the ages of like, late 1819 20, was, you know, porn or being delivered by VHS cassette. That was my only understanding of sex, and sex for me, in my 20s, I don’t think was great. I don’t think I knew what I was doing. I think I was just going through the motions. I didn’t really know what to feel. I didn’t feel comfortable. I did certainly was unaware I even had a body with sensations and to be honest, was quite grateful when the whole thing was over. How was your sex in your 20s?

No, I’m just I’m just trying to to follow.

It’s like, what are you? What are you trying to say in relation to to the topic that you’re challenging me? To? What am I saying? Where am I going with a topic? Yeah, what I’m trying to point to Yeah, in summary for you who a go because the listeners already know where I am. Yeah, what I’m trying to point to is having sex based on visual stimulation is unfulfilling, and the road to misery. And I believe that 90% of sex that happens, you know, other than, like deep relationships that happen outside, you know, that are more casual, I think, are based on the visual stimulation of other people. And I’m saying that, where do we learn about sex? And, you know, for me, it was like, through VHS cassettes of porn, okay. And then I’m saying, actually, you know, leading that on sex for me in my 20s wasn’t great. And I was then asking you on that same topic. What was your sex like in your 20s? Well, I’m just trying to stay to I was just going into a very, very different direction. Okay. Was that after I’ve made this point? And we’ve exhausted this? Yes.

I still didn’t get your point.

Are you saying, Are you saying that? You will not connect it to your body? And yes, and you were going I didn’t even know I had a body tonal. Were you going with a yes or no, when choosing your partner? Yes. Yeah, it was all based on how they looked. And, you know, as I said, sex wasn’t great in my 20s. Were compared to my age now. My sex is far different. And I was also inviting you to disclose how your sex was in your 20s. Yeah, but I’m not going to that’s a different episode. Yes. So it then wasn’t really until I started to the sex in my 30s. When I first met Tantra that I started to question and challenge and was confronted by the sexual experiences I was having in tantra because they were of a different order and a different magnitude than the sex that I’d had previously. And what my point is here is that actually, the best sex you’re ever going to have in your life doesn’t matter about how you look or how you feel about you. And actually, if you have a narrative in your head, that you don’t feel good enough, you feel ugly, you don’t feel attractive, that is not based in there is no truth to that. Because one, it’s subjective, and to what you’re looking for, to experience in life, like what you’re looking to experience in your best sex. What you’re looking to experience in interactions with the other. Others is nothing to do with how you look is everything to do with how you feel. And like as we talked in the last episode, we talked

About this inner landscape, about how you develop yourself to feel sensations, because the best sex you’re going to have is not a visual experience. It’s an embodied experience that happens in you in your inner landscape. When you feel connected to another. Yes, I mean, this, this completely rings a bell for me.

How after Tantra sex completely changed. And if I, if I tried to if I tried to memorize really, really good sexual experiences.

I’m just trying to track for myself, what was it that made these work? And when I,

when I tried, you know, when I think about that, I come back to this thing that I mentioned earlier, it’s, it’s a certain kind of energy in the partner, and it has nothing to do with what they look like, remember this, you know, this guy, for example, who was in many ways, really, really handicapped, but he had something.

I first saw it in him. And he had he had something really, really irresistible in it. And some people just have that and we call it do we sometimes call it, they’ve got good energy. And I’m just trying to, I’m just trying to interrogate myself almost, you know, what, what is this energy and what comes up? When I think about this guy, it was very much about, hey, it doesn’t matter where we are at, let’s go into an adventure. And let’s work with what what’s there? Is that what, what it is? Do you see what I mean this energy? Basically, I think what you’re talking about possibly you try this out? Is how you meet somebody you beyond the visual? And just can we just hold that? Because I want to want to go off on a little juncture a moment? Yeah. Okay. Because one of the biggest myths for me, in a man who loves men community, if you go and book a erotic massage, whether that’s a tantric massage massage with a happy ending, or even above and above the waterline, but actually more in erotic massage, for me, what’s always been curious, is the pictures that the muscles have of themselves, and that people make the choice of them a sir, based on how they look, yes. But when you have a massage, you’re led down and your eyes are closed for probably all of the experience. Yeah. So it’s always been a mystery to me around why we why we make selections based on how things visually appear, when the experience is nothing visual, because your eyes are closed, and you’re left on your front for a while with your face through a hole on it on a massage table. For me, you know, what makes a really good massage experience is again, what you’re pointing to here is the energy and the skill that somebody has, and the way that they’re energetically able to bring themselves. 

So I think, again, tiptoeing back into what you’re saying, actually, the best sex that we are ever going to have that you’ve had, wasn’t based upon how somebody looked, but it was how you how you were met. And I perceive that, and we may be biased hearing, because we teach Tantra, but for me, like when we’re in a room, you can often tell. So for example, like the festival, there’s 100 130 men in the room, you can tell who the people are that have experienced Tantra and that our experience completely Yeah. What do you thought? What would you say was the difference?

This this is interesting, because I’m just trying to this is exactly the question for me. It’s like, what is this what we call Oh, they’ve got the energy. But yes, this energy is actually it’s, it’s composed of several things. It’s the same thing with the muscle. It’s composed of several things. And I’m just trying to get to that, I would say.

One element, I would say is what we would call presence. Yes. But that’s just one element. But with the Master, for example.

Is he just going through the motions? Is he somewhere else with his mind? Yeah. Or is he completely throwing themselves into the experience of, of every touch and you feel that immediately, and it it was the same with you know, this elderly person that I was talking about what I find irresistible

about him is that he said, Fuck it. I’m not gonna wallow. You know, I’m not gonna wallow I’ve had I don’t know, I’ve had, yes, I’m gonna, you know, my life isn’t that long anymore, let’s just completely throw myself into that and without any, without any remorse, so to speak. And that kind of presence, that that that is one element that let’s, let’s really, really be in the moment together because something amazing could come out. And that has nothing to do with what happened before with what I think will happen in the future aside, it’s just like this presents. Yes, that’s one element. But I think I think there are more elements in it. And when you when you when you mentioned, you mentioned the festival, how do you recognize this here in the room? For me, I just want to give us the term ecstatic appeal ecstatic appeals. So it’s like, what makes somebody attractive? So we’re dealing with the question, somebody attractive, yeah, and we’re dealing with, I feel like I’m ugly, I’m not good. Looking enough. Nobody’s gonna want me and I’ve written myself. That’s the topic that we’re dealing with. But actually, it’s what makes someone attractive. Well, and so up to now what we have dealt with is actually if you just based on visual perception, that’s the road to nowhere. So then we’ve talked about this energetic awareness that people have. And now I’m alone with you asking the question about if you’re not looking at people for visually how they look. But you for me, what you’re pointing to with, with the guy that you’re talking about, is something that I would call energetic appeal. Yes. And what’s making that up? What’s happening in terms of that? Energetic appeal?

Presents, I have one thing, but there are several other elements. Yep. Tell me your thoughts. And I’ll tell you mine.

I’m just trying to collect my thoughts could could could you have somewhere to start? Well, I also want to go to our shows idea. We do have we talked about who our show is? No. Well, tell us a little bit about our show. And I’ll tell you about what we’re doing. So very short, dear listener. So our show is a let’s say, controversial Indian guru or anti guru who actually passed away in 1990, who had several ashrams and, wow, to be very, very short, we could say that he started or he galvanized what we call the Neo Tantra movement, which is what we teach. And what he basically did is in his ashram, as a field of experimentation, they brought together Western, let’s say, approaches from sex therapy and general generally from human growth oriented therapy with Eastern meditator from mainly Eastern wisdom traditions, meditative approaches, and brought that together in a very, I would say, life affirming type of spirituality, where spirituality is very, very much about completely throwing yourself into what life is here and now and that includes sex, and relationships and partying, and so on. Yeah. And for me, when we’ve been in different communities, both in our communities and in communities where we like in our early years, we taught at hetero remember our show, Lila endorser, Petro Tantra and there was what was that one in Minehead called? What were they called? They were also Croydon Hall, Croydon Hall, they were in another Osho community. Yeah, so basically, many, many places where this Neo Tantra, these you know, conscious sexuality festivals in the hetero realm, yes, were happening were these kinds of worship spaces. And one of the things I witnessed both in what we demand of our students in Tantra, our more advanced diploma students, not early days, but also what I witnessed in these other Asha communities was this totality. This is throwing yourself in. And for me, this is a metaphor for life. Because, again, I’ve said this before, if it’s happening in your sex, it’s happening in your life, and vice versa. So if we use sex as the metaphor in Tantra, when you are throwing yourself in, when you throw yourself in, there is no room for any thoughts, and there is no room for any doubts. So back to this topic of I feel unworthy, not very pretty.

The Ugly.If it’s like, there should be no space to I think Tantra offers the idea that there should be no space for that. Yes. Because when you are bringing all of your body, all of your energy, all of your sex, your genitals, all of who you are, actually, there’s no space for the mind. And there’s no space for shame and, and there’s no such space space. There’s no space for guilt. There’s no space for judgments like when we talk about the tantra journey. And I’ll talk about how I talk about it, but I talk about it is a game of two halves. One is about this totality of throwing yourself in completely, and being total. And being ecstasy, orgasmic, blissful, sacred, divine, being all of that amazing stuff, with your foot down on the gas pedal 100%, just like full on. And the other half of the journey is the great undoing the undoing of everything that gets in the way of that. And so this idea that I feel ugly, I feel unworthy, untouchable, nobody wants me is for me, what needs undoing. So I would say, you know, I think we can all recognize in ourselves, those places where we don’t feel pretty handsome, where we may feel too old, too fat, I don’t certainly own some of those where I don’t feel, you know, sexy. And it’s like, well, how do we talk to those parts of ourselves? How will we with those parts of ourselves? I’ve got, sorry, one other thought I want to add in here? And what does that tap into? Like? What happened in our history? That would make us feel those things? Where did we learn that? Where did we? And, you know, often that can be from comparison? Yes, I think comparison is a road to a road to self destruction. Because we are 7 billion or 8 billion, 8 billion unique individuals, even twins have some shreds of difference between them. And so this idea of, you know, really undoing the programming, that tells you that you’re not good enough, you’re not worthy, you’re and undesirable, the great undoing of those and realizing that those are coming from places that you’re judging, you’re comparing, you know, my answer to those is stop it. And when you’re in the tantra workshop, actually what’s asked of you is to be totally in the experience in the practice. And then those other mind thoughts, while you’re then just see them for what they are. I want to go on, but I want to see what you thought of this.

Do you realize that you have just you know, for our listeners as well, in my mind, one thing you have just brought is the ultimate definition of amazing sex. Yeah, when you know, amazing sex is when you are so in it, that there is absolutely no space for all those touches of your mind. And yes, you are so much in the flow that there is only there is only raw isness. Yes, raw. It happens on its own almost. And that is not. Because all of your boxes that you had made up in your mind are being ticked, it’s actually because you are so in the physicality of it, that you’re automatically, totally with what is happening already.

Tantra is a pathway of freedom, yeah. And of liberation. And I think that once you realize that those feelings are coming from a place of thoughts. At some point in the tantra journey, when you’ve had enough multiple orgasms, and ecstatic sensations that you’ve been loved by everybody, you’ll then start to question the place that those thoughts are coming from. And for me, you’ll then recognize them as what they are just thoughts. Like and for me, that then has a parallel with like meditation practice or the Buddhists or different kinds of Neo spiritual ideas. That actually you’re not your thoughts, thoughts just come and go, and they just float by and actually, the part of you that is the most truest is for me, what the self that you experience of you in the totality of the experience, not in your thoughts.Yes, but

in the practice and until that this is the point I want to drive home, this is attractive sex doesn’t happen at all, when someone is trying to tick boxes, it has to be like this. Like that. The person has to look like this, the person has to do that to me for it to be attractive. But it actually happens when there is no holding back in throwing yourself into what is happening. And things happen happen on their own. And then it becomes Yeah, incredibly ecstatic.

And then it doesn’t matter whether you think you’re attractive or not, no, then you become attractive. Yes, that makes you that’s 1111 More point in what makes energetic attraction energetic attraction is for me. For me, and that’s, you know, until today and six when a person comes in, and there is a readiness to just jump into whatever will happen between the two of us without any ideas of yeah, this is what I want from you. And if I’m not getting it, then it’s not good at this, you know, then you have already lost on your mindset. But if you if you encounter a person that just comes in, and let’s throw ourselves into what is happening, what happens between us, then you have already won. But that mindset, which you know, it’s almost a meditative, it’s a spiritual mindset, actually, yes. It’s a mindset that comes through through spiritual practice. And through meditation, you cultivate that?

Yeah, that mindset is key.

You remind me of two things. I see our festival. Yeah. Here we are in Glastonbury at the tantra love festival. I see two things. One is those that are experienced in tantra that are, you know, in the place that we’re talking about, I notice and observe them having this energetic attractiveness, and their willingness to share that uncompromisingly with everybody. And I’m not talking about sex, but I’m talking about I’m talking it could be sexual, but it could also be loving, it could be ecstatic. It could be hugging, it could be conversations. Like for me, once you realize the true essence of yourself, as beautiful and blissful. There’s like a radiance isn’t there. There’s like a radiance, where this energetic attractiveness becomes like a radiate radiance, and you meet everything and everyone and life, as it appears in moment to moment. I don’t know if that sounds too hokey cooking.

No, it’s reminds me off. That’s that actually points to another one. To another very basic thing. The absence of neediness? Yes. So basically, if someone comes to you, from a needy place, yes, people, you know, most people feel that and they will shun that person. Yes. So one thing I usually Oh, you and me actually usually suggest is to organize your life in in a way that you get as much sex as you possibly can, until you come to a point where a certain kind of neediness is falling away. And yes, then you can start to have real sex. Yes. Because that if someone approaches you from this, this happens at the festival a lot from this, from this perspective, hey, I want to explore with you, but not not because I need a certain experience out of you. But because I’m really, really ready to explore and we’re open and and see where this goes to. That’s that that’s a different thing. That’s also what I experience at the festival. Yes, you can you know, what this was leading on to the second thing I wanted to say about the festival. So one is about the, the energetic attractiveness of people that are doing Tantra. You can kind of see them and you feel drawn to them. The second thing is, I perceive like, let’s just take our festival as an example, that if there’s 130 men there, there are 130 different experiences to share with every man that is there. And that could be, you know, a chat, a hug, an eye gazing. It could be like something sensual, like hugs or light touches, it could be really sexual hard sex. And it’s like, learning to share yourself or learning to be to be in this field of people without judging based on how people look that actually have this piece of homework to go and see what it is that you’ve got available to share with every single person that’s there?

That’s another aspect of this neediness. But But you’re right.

I feel that issues of feeling unattractive? Yes, not good enough, arise often often arise in a context where one partner has a very, very fixed idea of what he wants to get out of the like, and then all of a sudden, I can’t fulfill that. And so I feel I feel bad. I can’t look like that are, you know, are physically I can’t I’m not up to you know, I am not I can’t do that for you things like that. And that often, for me arises out of a situation where a person has a very, very fixed idea of what their sex should look like and what they’re looking for. And that’s kind of neediness. Yes. As you mentioned, if there is a have a very wide repertoire of possible things, yes, our encounter could be yes. So I, I want an encounter with you. But whether that goes into heavy sex, or whether that’s just a little bit of a cuddle, or maybe you know, anything in between. When that’s undetermined, like possibilities opened up, open up, when that’s the determined there is. At the same time, there is this potential of unfulfillment coming in, oh, God, I feel not, I don’t feel good enough for him, because he has this idea, and I can’t fulfill that, you know, things like that, completely, completely. For me, it then just comes back to, you know, as we’re in the last moments of our podcast, actually, the idea that you’re ugly or unattractive or unworthy in some way, is just a mental activity that isn’t going to serve you. And it’s almost like regardless of that, regardless of what’s going on for you personally, the tantra journey invites your totality, throw yourself in, let go of any judgments, you know, obviously, boundaries and consent are a huge, foundational part of Tantra. So nobody’s going to do anything that they don’t want to do. And the world is vast, and you just don’t know, I think what we’re probably also pointing to is a vulnerability, to meet life without a prescribed idea of what it needs to be. So when we talk about this, you know, letting go of mental perceptions, we talked about letting go of neediness, letting go of it needing to be anything, and are able to meet the moment, as it is, you know, say at the festival with these 130 men, that you can meet them in what and without any idea of how it’s going to be. There’s something blissful that arises from that, if you’ve seen that, at the festival, day three, we know when they’ve kind of dropped in, there’s something blissful, that arises something that’s incredibly palpable, incredibly attractive, and people just fall in love. And they have this love in so many different ways. They, you know, whether it might be sexual that might be, as you said, hugging, that may be sensual. That may be like tantric sex where, you know, it’s not so sexual, but it’s like energetic and felt. I don’t know about you, you know, we’ve seen over the 13 years of running the festival, people just fall in love. And I think what happens there is people forget who they are in the outside world, they forget their insecurities. They forget the judgments they have about themselves, and they just meet life in the moment as it arises. And I think for me, this is probably one of the conclusions that I would offer for this podcast.

Yes. And I think you’re, you’re saying exactly the right thing. I just wanted to, to reframe it and yes, slightly is due in a slightly different way. Basically, as a conclusion, you know, our, our listeners may ask, okay, this is, how do I actually practically gets there to an apprentice train to a feeling weight to a feeling of this? And I would say it’s exactly what you just described. You throw yourself into something like the festival, and what we will gently train you to do that is to have a repertoire of things. Things that you can do with others wide repertoire. And then you’ve basically got a toolbox via which you can meet others in ways that you might not be used. Via that you create what I would call a repertoire of how you met people. And the amazing thing is that once you have, once you meet them with this wide idea of, hey, this could happen, but this could happen or anything in between could happen, then you what happens almost automatically is that you have positive encounters, and positive encounters, that are all very, very different of what you may feel that sex should be like. So you’re having positive encounters in many, many different ways. So you get this repertoire in, and that these experiences slowly start almost to overwrite your previous repertoire of experience of experiences that, you know, you may have a repertoire of experiences from, let’s say, typical, gay dating, which is like, top or bottom? Ah, no, no match. Yeah, no, I don’t like you. That’s, that’s, that’s, it’s not going to happen. These kinds of experiences, they give us a repertoire of negativity. And you can override these with positive experiences that come from being open to a wide array of of encounters. And once that happens, Mind Mind Mind more, something changes, something changes in our self perception, it moves from uglier to more positive to actually wanted to actually, I’m wanted people do find me attractive. That does something with with our self image. I’ve seen it so many times. You have Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And we’re getting to the end of the podcast. So what are we saying in very short summary? Yeah, we started this podcast with I feel ugly, unattractive, undesirable, and I’m stuck help. Yes. And for me, the first thing is, if you’re feeling that, don’t buy into it, it’s just thoughts, and actually throw yourself into Tantra. Regardless of how you feel about yourself. I think that’s one thing that we’re saying. We’re also saying that actually visually, living in a world dependent upon visual stimulation, visual stimulation, based on how everything looks is the road to nowhere, it’s unhappy place.

Don’t do it. You can reprogram yourself, yes, experiences, and through Tantra throw yourself in, you’re gonna feel great. If you let go. And just accept everything and you’re gonna re learn about yourself, you can reprogram, you can reprogram yourself by these kinds of positive experiences,

and then just available to life to Tantra totality. And you’re going to feel amazing, blissful things, life is going to be good. It’s like let go of let go of that and just focus on kind of the experiences and the sharing and the possibilities and expect nothing thing that was the thing that you said have zero expectations have no desire for any outcome. You have to surrender even that.

Yes, yes. Yes.

We talked about the tantra love festival. And if you notice, I’m slowly bringing us to a close. We talked about the tantra love festival. When is it starts on the 24th of August 2024. Yep. And finishes on Wednesday. Actually, it’s you know, whenever you’re listening to this, dear listener, it’s actually every single year last weekend alter the last weekend in August, just Yes. Saturday to Wednesday, yes, five for four nights, five days.

If you’re listening to this podcast, if you like everything Ingo and I talk about, come come to the festival, buy a tent come and camp or we’ll have some limited accommodation available, come and join in this new world and this new possibility. If geographically you’re not able to do that we’ve got our ashram online. So it’s a program guided by me and Ingo, it has it’s an ashram. It’s an online temple practicing Tantra. It’s an ashram. And there’s a program at the moment till the middle of October 2024. We are exploring how to become multi orgasmic. And then when that finishes we’re going to start a new topic every three months, something like that there are life classes were taught live classes. and many more things tantra4gaymen.com for the ashram. Ingo, thank you for today’s topic that’s been a beautiful unfolding of that exploration. Thank you. Thank you, my darling. All right. See you next time episode 14. Take care. Bye bye. So I hope you’ve enjoyed listening to today’s podcast. If you’re interested to come and join us for the tantra love festival. As we said, it’s Saturday the 24th to Wednesday, the 28th in Glastonbury, UK. We run this every last weekend of August each year. So if you missed it this year, pop it in your diary for next details of that are on our website Tantra for gay men.com. If you’re interested to join our online ashram, our ongoing program of tantra you can get details of that community. Dot Tantra for gay men.com That’s community dot Tantra for gay men.com Look forward to seeing you in episode 14 where we’ll be picking off another topic in tantra to discuss take care

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